Regen Continued…
Getting the bits right isn’t the whole story to be sure. But you have to start there. If the CD Illumination guy in Australia was messing with the bits or the Regen box did a little DSP on the bits coming from my recordings, I would be upset. What I deliver in my mixes and masters is what the artist and I want. There shouldn’t be boxes out there mucking about with my sound. Perhaps we should think of the Regen like the new Meridian MQA process. It allows the best possible signal integrity to pass from the source to the DAC. It minimizes any potential loss in fidelity rather than making any enhancements. I can get behind that notion.
The lengthy discussion of what the Regen actually does makes for an interesting read. Yes, I did read the various posts, papers, and presentations about the inner workings of USB. I have no doubt that Alex and John, the designer of the Regen believe that they’ve designed, built, and are selling a device that improves the user listening experience. And clearly, they have a loyal following of customers that believe it too. I’m not one of them.
I listened intently using what I consider to be one of the best sounding high-end DACs through my system (putting the Benchmark DAC2 HGC in the “low-to-middle range of DACs” as Alex wrote in his comments is unkind and untrue…just ask a bunch of the best studios in Los Angeles what they use.). I listened to a selection of music that won the 2002 “Demmy” award from the Consumer Electronics Association…a track that I’ve heard many hundreds of times. The sound didn’t change when the data stream was sent through the Regent box.
Believe whom you want. I’ve made my career in the professional music engineering business for over 35 years. I’ve mastered hundreds of successful albums for others in addition to my own AIX Records. I know the sound of my system and I failed to perceive any change…subtle or not…when using the Regen. That doesn’t mean that a graphic showing improved signal integrity isn’t real or that the explanations don’t have merit. What it means is whether the processing that the Regen box is doing matters in the recreation of the data stream into the analog signals that we experience. You’ll have to judge for yourself. In my opinion there are a lot more cost effective ways to dramatically improve the fidelity of your system.
Mark
Just out of interest, what other DAC’s did you audition before deciding to use the Benchmark?
I have read all of the comments about the Regen – I think it’s time to move on…
I’ve used and have PS Audio, Sonic Solutions, Euphonix, and Benchmark. I’ve listened to Schitt, Lavry, Berkeley, Mytek, and Aria.
And… you said you have auditioned a Chord Electronics DAC.
Thanks for your honest views. No doubt you’ve saved a lot from falling for the snake oil charlatans.
you have a very fine system better than what most people can afford
I just wonder in a less expensive system would he Regen have a greater impact/Audible difference?
Is it possible it can be masking errors in the less expensive system
Just curious
Rick
It’s certainly possible…but I doubt it.
Hi Mark,
Let’s talk about your conflict of interest.
You quoted the head designer from Benchmark saying this about the REGEN, “If this thing works, there is something wrong with your DAC!”
You said, “I’m willing to accept that a poorly designed DAC might benefit from the REGEN, but certainly not a high-end piece like the Benchmark DAC 2.” All this before listening to the REGEN and then you choose to use a Benchmark DAC for evaluating the REGEN.
You have also repeatedly said that you and John Siau, who is one of the principals at Benchmark and their Director Of Engineering, are friends and that you go to him for answers to technical questions.
If we put 2 and 2 together, it is clear that if you admit to hearing a difference with the REGEN/Benchmark DAC you are either saying the head designer at Benchmark is wrong, that something is wrong with your friend’s DAC, or that it is a poorly designed DAC.
Here’s your quote which appears on the Benchmark website under Reviews:
“The Benchmark DAC2 HGC is a reference quality converter and functions as well as a preamplifier. It competes…and wins…against anything at any price, including the Light Harmonic $20K DAC (no kidding).” Mark Waldrep, AIX Records (July 10 2014)
Clearly, you do not believe your friend’s DAC is broken or poorly designed.
My point being, you have a conflict of interest in terms of your ability to provide an unbiased appraisal of the REGEN when using the Benchmark DAC.
Mark,
Did you open up the Regen box to verify what is inside? I am very certain that you will be surprised. The same thing happened with me opening the box of a Shunyata Research Hydra Power Conditioner. What I saw inside made me believe that we audiophiles deserve to be called audiots! Both are snake oil and the Shunyata is a very expensive one!
It wasn’t mine so it wasn’t opened up. Audiophiles and audio reviewers are a passionate bunch…I guess that makes them more susceptible to products with dubious qualifications…with big price tags. Plenty of people want to believe…and they do believe…and some even claim their view is the absolute truth! What they believe becomes a fact for them and everyone else.
The Benchmark DAC2 HGC is a reference quality converter and functions as well as a preamplifier. It competes…and wins…against anything at any price
Hi Mark,
I don’t see the word “believe” in that statement 🙂
Last I looked the Benchmark DAC2 HGC WAS a Class A+ rated component along with earning a $$$ value rating in Stereophiles Recommended Components list. April 2015
This is the converter to beat in my opinion.
Hi Sal,
That was not my point. The Benchmark DAC is very highly regarded, no doubt. A number of people I know and respect use the Benchmark DAC as a reference.
In the quote I referenced from Mark, he makes the statement, “It [the Benchmark DAC] competes…and wins…against anything at any price”. Yet he also says, “Plenty of people want to believe…and they do believe…and some even claim their view is the absolute truth!”
So we have Mark stating as “absolute truth” that the Benchmark DAC “competes…and wins…against anything at any price” when what he should have said, even according to his own words is — ‘I believe the Benchmark DAC competes…and wins…against anything at any price’. Even here I’d take exception with Mark’s quote because he has not heard “…anything at any price”.
Mark’s quote re. the Benchmark is hyperbole that’s meant to be taken seriously. It is not a “review” but it is presented as one of a product made by his friend. If I reviewed a DAC and claimed it the beats “anything at any price” and you found out that I was friends with the DAC’s designer, I’d imagine you, and others, would you would cry foul.
But Mark gives himself a pass, you give Mark a pass, and you use Stereophile’s rating to substantiate Mark’s position. Of course there are other DACs on Stereophile’s RC A+ list including the NAD which costs the same as the Benchmark. The Auralic Vega, which I use, is also on that A+ list and according to John Atkinson, based on sound quality alone, it surpasses the Benchark DAC. I also place more value on someone’s comparative views when they have extensive experience comparing things like DACs in their own system.
The main point I making is Mark is being and critical and hypocritical – on one hand he’s critical of “audiophiles and audio reviewers” who “believe” what they experience is “the absolute truth!”, while on the other hand he presents his views as the absolute truth.
Finally, since Mark has, for whatever reason, chosen to single me out in terms of the UpTone Audio REGEN, I stated that I do not “believe” the REGEN works, I know it works. This knowledge is based on direct experience with the REGEN used in my systems for months. I know I heard a difference as plainly as I know I hear a difference between our daughter’s voices. Mark’s attempts to make the silly distinction between “believe” and “know” is simply another of his smoke screens meant to divert people’s attention from the fact that the REGEN is based on real engineering and hundreds of people use the REGEN because they hear an improvement in their systems with it in their system.
Thank you Mark. I’m happy that I ‘m not the only seasoned veteran who couldn’t hear a dammed bit of difference with the REGEN, I wholly agree that there are better ways to spend your audio dollars. On the other hand, there’a a lot of complicated stuff going on that we don’t understand yet, so it’s more than bits is bits, For example, I’d like to know why the cheapest Pangea USB cable sounds light years better than a run-of-the-mill cable? Why does choosing “play files from memory” in JRiver crush the soundfield? Why does upsampling mess with the bass of a CD quality audio file in every DAC that I’ve tried?
In any event, the advances in digital technology are breathtaking, and as a long-time hater of digital. I now take great delight in demonstrating to my ‘analog is best’ friends that even a very modest digital setup can do a better job than a very expensive analog rig,
I own a representative sample of audio reproducers from 1908 to the present. If it was recorded between 1897 and today I can probably play it. Believe me, I have a deep understanding and appreciation of advances in audio recording and reproduction technology, But for me, it all starts with the recording and mastering process, I much prefer listening to a well-recorded and well-performed 78 than to a poorly recorded, poorly engineered, and poorly performed super hi rez recording. I’m actually a big fan of 78s recorded beween 1925 and 1945 as these were all direct-to-disc, There was no mucking around in the studio afterwards, Bottom line – keep up the good work, and keep fighting the good fight for better sound; and, thanks,
Don, I heard no change. If it didn’t produce the results that you were expecting, then you were right to return the device. Although, on another front…I’ve compared an expensive USB cable to a good one and found no sonic differences.
Your statement about the production techniques being far more important than the cables, formats, and audiophile accessories is exactly right.